Why Cancer is Like Sport: life after Hodgkin's Lymphoma

Josh Hickford as a contestant on Survivor

A cancer diagnosis is never how we think life is going to unfold.

When I was diagnosed in 2018 with breast cancer it took me a long time to reconcile what was going on. For months during treatment, I would wake up in a panic thinking 'fuck! I've got cancer'. I still have moments of disbelief when I catch a glimpse of my missing right breast.

In this episode of The C Word Radio, I sat down with Taranaki man, Josh Hickford, to talk about what it's like to compete on Survivor months after finishing cancer treatment.

And then I got cancer

Josh Hickford was 27 in 2017 when he returned from his OE. He had bought the house, been to university, and all was ticking off all the typical 'Kiwi' life goals. He wasn't sure what to do next, cancer certainly wasn't high on the list.

It started with a lump on his neck. Following a series of tests, Josh heard the words we all dread, "you have cancer".

Why cancer is like sport

Josh drove home in a daze. Not wanting to wake his dad who was sleeping after a night shift, he opened a beer and turned on the cricket.

Like many Kiwi men, Josh is sports-mad. It was his love for competition that helped him approach treatment like the Black Caps in a test match. He surrounded himself with his support team and listened to expert advice.

Positive thinking and cancer

There's no denying your mental outlook impacts how well you cope with cancer treatment. I'm not talking about toxic positivity, rather using tools like visualisation, acknowledging the full spectrum of emotions you experience, and holding onto hope.

Josh drew inspiration from Sir Edmund Hilary climbing Mt Everest. He printed off a picture of Mt Everest and created labels for different milestones during his treatment. Each time he finished treatment he ticked it off.

Competing on Survivor

A few months after finishing treatment Josh was in Thailand competing on the reality series Survivor! Like many of us who finish cancer treatment, Josh felt like he wanted to try everything.

Being stuck on an island with strangers is my worst nightmare. Three months post-treatment I was barely managing regular walks! But Josh thrives on competition and his cancer experience has strengthened his drive (he's also ticked off finishing an Iron Man race).

Check out the full episode to find out how cancer has shaped Josh and how he has approached post-treatment life.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Helen: Kia Ora. And welcome back to the C-Word Radio. I'm your host, Helen King. And this is the podcast with cancer. People who want real conversation about cancer. If you don't like what you hear today, please subscribe from Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello, my friends. It is so cool to be back with you after a little break, as I'm recording, we are now in freedom day here in Tamaki Makoto after what seems like an eternity, I think we were up to 107 days and locked down, but to be honest, not a lot changes for me. [00:00:41] I worked from home and I don't really get out much, which is. A bit of a sad indictment of my life, but I am looking forward to going back into the local cafes and being able to just sit down and enjoy a coffee, open a people watching, maybe [00:01:00] enjoy a piece of cake from time to time, get away from my two, um, lovely yet somewhat irritating at times, dogs. [00:01:10] As we come closer to the end of the year, I, him bringing you more stories from cancer people from around the world, including a young woman who was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, the start of the pandemic. Once she finished treatment, she went back into ultra marathon running, which in my mind is pretty amazing, a little crazy. [00:01:35] I also sat down with my Denver based, an ADA who shares her experience about being a caregiver to her mom. After she was diagnosed with breast cancer, ADA was still processing the death of her father who passed away from COVID when her mum was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I thought, okay, Really good to talk to her and get the perspective as a caregiver.[00:02:00] [00:02:00] I also have some exciting plans for 2022 with the C-word and I'm going to be changing things up a bit, but I'll share more about that with you over the next few weeks. My guest today loves the challenge born and bred and talent. Mackie. Josh Hackford has always seized life with both hands when he was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma in 2017. [00:02:25] Hey, true inspiration from certain meant Hillary, as he climbed Mount Everest and Lexi Josh planned to knock the past. A few months after finishing treatment, Josh was in Thailand competing on their reality TV series. Survive it. This is Josh's story. When I was looking you up, which I know always sounds a bit creepy, but. [00:02:49] We're not looking at your background. Cause I hadn't realized when we first started talking that you had been on survivor or a survivor style show, and I have [00:03:00] to imagine that sort of thing is my worst nightmare on an island. So that was something I was quite curious about because you weren't really far out of your treatment at that stage. [00:03:13] So I'd love to know about that experience. [00:03:17] Josh: Yeah. So I got diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma and January, 2017, after sort of a three months process to try and work out what the hell was going on. And then I went through a treatment plan through the middle of that year, and I was sort of gotten the remission and August, which was great. [00:03:36] And then in September, the survivor applications opened for the background that the first season of Survivor was playing on TV. When I was in Osman house. And Thompson NOLs getting radiation. And I didn't even know it was all, I didn't know that. Was it even a thing until I saw it on TV, I was got it because I was like, well, I didn't, we were applications. [00:03:58] I said, I just looked at my mum [00:04:00] straight away as I'm going to go on season two. And it's obviously a slightly how to process to get on Survivor and just say, I'm going to go home. And then applications opened about a month after I was in remission. And I went through the process and got on, got cast. And so long story short, I was in remission. [00:04:16] Three or four months, and then I went and played survivor. So yeah, there was a little bit probably out of the gate, but the three months building up to it, just trying to get as fit as possible, eat well, get in good shape and obviously lock the game. So the game side of it, I just watched tips to survive, but I was just trying to get my body ready, but the way we flew off to Thailand and the north of that five hours north of Bangkok on this big lake national lake, We'll see about just show 18 or start other people and played survivor asides to hottest found a bit ahead because it was fun, but it was really hard and it was one of those situations. [00:04:54] Uh, it's now a Skype and it's very hard to prepare for because people can [00:05:00] say, oh, you can watch them read up and this and that, but it's one of those things that you can't go for a run to run a half marathon, or do a triathlon for an Ironman. We'll even cook something for a master shift show. Like you can actually practice for those there's a fleshy do. [00:05:13] It was a bit of a baptism of fire in a way. Everyone was in the same boat, literally in the same boats, getting to the island as well. [00:05:21] Helen: I just, I was thinking about, yeah. That close to ending treatment and training and getting ready to go into the fiber. I think what was that like that experience where you were tired? [00:05:35] Josh: Yeah, I guess reflecting on it. It's probably, it's probably a little bit extreme, but at that point I was just whatever I want. Now it wasn't raised and because it was such a good opportunity when you've had cancer, you can obviously pull out the cancer card and obviously pulled that out in my application. [00:05:54] Cast members Castaway had a bit of a backstory. So I guess to think, answer for that, [00:06:00] but the process to get on. I was obviously, I was very transparent with them and I had to get a bit of a. Right off from, or sign-off from my oncologist. Um, fortunately she was on board with the dream and the risk, I guess, is wrestling and everything you do, but ultimately it was a once in a lifetime opportunity that money can't buy. [00:06:21] So I was not going to take no for an answer. And I prepared myself as much as I could, because if you're going to relapse what event it is, what it is, that's the approach to take in life. Now things happen generally for a reason. There's obviously a big splash and lack involved, but I just decided I was going to go. [00:06:37] Helen: This is amazing. And I think that it is just interesting and I'm sure there are a lot of people that will relate to it that you do get through the end of treatment and there's this part of your brain. That's like, I want to do anything. [00:06:50] Josh: Yeah. Cause I've always, I'm quite goal-driven but yeah, I still am and quite compete very competitive, which was probably my downfall and [00:07:00] survival. [00:07:00] We'll talk about it later. But before I got cancer was stranger into overseas and did my three and a half, four months turn around the world, follow the tour de France. And the campaign went to America, everybody. It was awesome. And when I got paid from that, it was a little bit like, oh, What am I going? I was, I'm a chartered accountant as well. [00:07:18] So I did that before that got my chart of accounts saved up and bought the house and did all the key stuff that we all know. And those are what makes, so it was naturally, I'm not sure. And then I got cancer and it was a bit like the university said, oh, here you go. Have a go with it. And yeah. Did can set in. [00:07:35] So I was followed. So yeah, it was like a stick throat things people say, are you going to sell your house and just go traveling the world? And as I've already traveled the world quite extensively, And now it was a bit of, I'm not sure. And then survivor popped up as well. But when you asked you'd know that when you do get some of cancer that does change your mindset a bit, and some people obviously go to one extreme and then doing the whole setup and. [00:07:58] I still want to live till I'm [00:08:00] 80 plus 80 would be a great knock. I'll be happy with it. But to get there, I'm not just going to spend all my money and all that. So life continues. Life does go on and unfortunately you'll know this as well. That when you have cancer, you made a lot of amazing. During that process that have cancer as well. [00:08:17] And many of those people are no longer here. I can see the Mo the harsh reality is that it does take away a lot of good people, um, during the process and unfortunate to have got through it. And I say, relatively unscathed, I feel like. I got through. Got it, got an easy sort of thing, but you know, some people get a bit offended by that because everyone's cancer experiences vastly different, and some people will come out of it. [00:08:41] That's the ability that I no longer on them or long lasting effects, some memory issues, all sorts of stuff where they don't have their previous life back. But yeah, I feel quite fortunate that my life's probably in a strange I've benefited from that experience. And I've kind of just never looked back.[00:09:00] [00:09:00] Helen: Yeah, I think that's a good thing to touch on because I guess when you get cancer and start looking into it, cancer is such as an umbrella term for lots and lots of different diseases. And so, yeah, of course we are going to have quite different experiences depending on the type of cancer, the degree that you had, the cancer, the treatment, and all of those things. [00:09:23] So you were diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma at the beginning of 2017. How old. [00:09:29] Josh: I was 27 and. Um, keynote speaking on survivor and cancer, surviving cancer and all of that sort of stuff. Then the audit when ourselves, you know, young, uh, depending on the audience, you get a bit of reaction. That's quite funny, but 27, in my opinion is young to get cancer. [00:09:49] However, if you look at the cancer, I got, that's sort of the average demographic is 28 year old male. And I was like on that. So there was all quite confusing. What have I [00:10:00] done to trigger this? This demon may getting it for first instance, but I'm not right on that hot point of Hodgkin's, which was. That [00:10:09] Helen: is very weird. [00:10:10] I didn't know that about Hodgkin's lymphoma and that, so that's very, you might want [00:10:14] Josh: to fix you, but you become an expert quickly when you get canceled. It's so much writing about the Hodgkins. Don't find the textbook and it's super wordy, but I read the whole thing and it was actually quite intriguing. I was like, oh, maybe I should become an oncologist, but you become a bit of an expert. [00:10:28] So you do read up on everything in here as bad as the situation was. It was all quite true. [00:10:33] Helen: Yeah. So what were the symptoms that lead you to get the diagnosis? What was going on before and what leads you to need to see the doctor and get diagnosed? [00:10:47] Josh: Yeah. Um, reasonably vigilant sort of person. Look after myself, get checkups. [00:10:53] And whatnot. And I've just had a lump on my neck that was sorta just down on my left side, but it just felt [00:11:00] like it shouldn't be there. And it only just popped up after a cricket game, actually. So I was thinking I'll maybe a blood and blood vessel, or I don't know, just the Hamus hydro or something, but it wasn't bruised or anything. [00:11:10] And it wasn't sore. It was just a little hard lump about very mobile. And I gave it about five days just to see how it reacts and it was still there. So I just went straight to my GP. And then the GP kind of gave me a pretty short answer. They just sit on it, strange, get a blood test, blood test. As you know, don't necessarily show cancer. [00:11:30] They just show red flags and markers and elevations, et cetera. And then, um, that came back, he just referred me to head and neck specialist. And then he said the same thing he was, cause I asked him, how do you feel, blah, blah, blah. And I was good neck and felt. Pretty good. And Hey, see the same thing. That's unusual your age and any sort of rifle as they rattle off. [00:11:51] Now it could be, this could be this, and in the middle of this lymphoma, you hear the word lymphoma. It just, it doesn't sound like a friendly word. And then [00:12:00] immediately you're like, whoa. And you Google that and say, oh gosh, it's not something I wanna, they might Sue us. But, um, and then, but at this point I was always pretty positive. [00:12:10] That could be any sex. And then. Consultation. Oh, so at this point I had a CT scan, so that. And there was some sort of mass is probably not the quite the right word, but the lump, there was obviously a lump and there was something there that a CT scan obviously doesn't show the depth of, of the shomer or cancer, but I'm, so I went back to the specialist and he said that we've seen this. [00:12:38] And then he said, oh, we'll do it. Under the knife tomorrow. And I was like, oh, so I rang my boss. This was quite late in the day as well. And so we're not tuned to, I rang the boss all in through, and then went to the hospital the next morning, because it was so rushed. I wasn't even on the list. So then I draw on pencil, my name and everything. [00:12:56] It was all real cowboy, probably in a COVID world. I don't know if they would hit them now [00:13:00] it'll happen quite fast. And I think the urgency was because it was getting close to Christmas and that everyone shuts down and everything. And he was a bit worried that three weeks is quite a long. And at that stage about by the stage, there was more than one lump. [00:13:14] It was quite a few lumps and it was, I call it like a bit of a great fight, you know, when you just grab some grapes and sumac, and if you put a, like a thumb sheet over them, they sorta. No, it's not that on a beautiful thing that it was probably obvious, but again, there weren't many other marketers or anything that was saying this, the only an enhancement as well beyond the other symptoms that a low level was generalized itching. [00:13:40] So I had to put them in actually everywhere, almost like sunburn, just like nothing to just generally actually. And sometimes you don't even notice you're doing it. The oncologist never really validated it, but I had a little mark on my face, so it was a bit of a. And it just wouldn't heal. Nothing would heal. [00:13:55] And the only time it did disappear is when I had came out of my, the executive decision that that was [00:14:00] related. And then the other, what was the other symptom? Oh, whenever I went for a run or do an exercise, I'd have a little dry cough for about an hour after it. And as it turns out, those symptoms, owl symptoms of Hodgkin's, but that's not, they're not always present in every case, but so I found out maybe about six weeks after that. [00:14:19] Going to my GP. That happened pretty quick, really long time. Like when you, when you're waiting on a test or something and the result could be cancer. So just tell me now, but yeah, [00:14:30] Helen: absolutely. Wow. Six weeks, mine haven't really quickly. So I just think I would have gone nuts. So actually from the time I had a scan, it was four days that they diagnosed me basically. [00:14:47] Yeah, because I know that you've described getting a cancer diagnosis is a bombshell. And I do think that is one of the best sort of ways to describe it, because I think even when you go [00:15:00] through that process of diagnosis, there's a little part of you goes, oh God, is it? But when you actually hear those words, I'm really sorry. [00:15:07] Or does look like cancer or does, can. It's just, it's such a surreal moment. It wasn't like that for [00:15:14] Josh: you as well. With breast cancer is one of the more common or most common cancers that women get in New Zealand. And I guess the diagnosis is probably simpler in terms of. That's quite a bit of a generalization, but it's quite easy to diagnose it with blood and blood cancers that can be tricky to track down. [00:15:35] So the diagnosis is kind of like, we'll do a test. And for this time you will know if this was a lot of fishing expedition trying to catch trout in the river or something. And a bit wildly. When I found out it wasn't a results day, I was going into the Haas based hospital here in tobacky to. Prepare for that new biopsy that, that ordered. [00:15:53] And so that were doing a CT scan to just essentially assist the site. And I was working at [00:16:00] TSB bank at the time and I'd taken the CFO's car because I thought I just popped out from the scan, come back to the hospital, got also to that. And I was sitting on the table about just scan and then just strangely enough, the nurse brought over the phone to me, which was, oh, this is weird at a hospital or taking a phone call. [00:16:19] Sit on stop to come out from pharmacy. And at that point is that this is weird and he just sit on the phone. Then he's like, oh, with my teams looked at the original biopsies and we've found Hodgkin's lymphoma and less, I didn't actually say you've got cancer. They just said quite analytical or whatever, but I actually quite liked standing him, but he said, well, we've found. [00:16:42] And then, like I said, it was like a bombshells. And the movies, when you see those big glass golf, the actor there is that ringing and I sort of died and they can't see, or they can't everything around them carries on that, just steering. It was called it. And he was like associated because [00:17:00] I was just processing it. [00:17:01] And then I was like, I was just in shock really? And cause I had no one around me, but literally just in the nurses left because probably I didn't even know who she was, but I'd known around me to share that moment and I wasn't quite mentally prepared for it. I wasn't walking into a consultation to either find that out. [00:17:19] And I guess if you do, you almost, it could be that I'm, I'm, I'm prepared to hear that. So it was a bit of a blind spot in survivor teams, and I didn't have an immunity to work out. Unfortunately, long story short, I ended up because I had my boss's car. I had to go back to work and. I vividly remember that drive to work, driving down one of the main roads. [00:17:41] And there was a school day and there's like 10 people walking around. And I was just wondering what that all up to, because people just going about the I've just found out that I've got cancer and then everyone's just going about their business on, I don't know, running errands or just going to the supermarket. [00:17:55] I don't know, doing unimportant things, which may, which makes me think now when [00:18:00] someone has a bit of road rage or. Is it having a yells at you, just a random person in the pamphlet, or maybe they've just lost a family member or been told about cancer. You just actually don't know. So it's always to be aware of that, but if I drive back to work and I gave, I physically could not say what I've just been told to my boss, which was really weighed, but fortunately he's thought he was quite a good ally in this situation. [00:18:21] Uh, eventually got it out, but it was actually really hard to say, not really hard to say it probably took me three or four days to be able to say it without either breaking down or like cracking. Cause I'm not, I'm usually quite another strong person, but it was just really hard to say I've got cancer and. [00:18:38] So you gave the car back and just went home. But again, at home, my sister was in China teaching and my now wife was teaching at Stratford high school. And my mum was at work as a nurse. So she never phoned on a day wasn't being from night shift. So I had no one to tell. And so I just, the black kids were playing and there was, I think it was [00:19:00] afternoon. [00:19:00] So I just went down to the bed's fridge and got a beer out and just watch the cricket because that felt like the natural thing to do. [00:19:07] Helen: I've just been tired. I've got cancer. I'm just going to have a beer and I'm going to watch. [00:19:12] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Just the right thing to do. And then in the end I told dad knows yes, those see a pretty good setting for them, parents and the child have cancer. [00:19:23] And having a, now having a child myself, I completely understand that no one wants the kids to have cancer or die before them, but it happens. And then you just went through the process after that. Educated myself fully understood. Unfolding with treatment and staging and the pet CT scans and the system for me was really good. [00:19:45] The public health system. I was probably a little bit lucky that I had health insurance to start with. Got those initial investigative scans. I really fast because I didn't have to wait because if your death is, if it's looking like [00:20:00] cancer, the last thing was to go on a waiting list because time is his life and the situation. [00:20:05] So. [00:20:07] Helen: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, because I had insurance and if anyone's listening and thinks, how on earth did she get diagnosed with them? Four days. That's why it's because I had health insurance and I was able to, yeah, just get into, have scans and get into a specialist, but it is a it's life-changing it's life-changing moment. [00:20:26] And I relate to that sort of, yeah, almost like a ringing in your ears when someone, when you get that news and the. Yeah, I just, I remember that if eventually that sort of you're going about your day, but your day is about, you've just been diagnosed with cancer and now you're finding out what's going to happen. [00:20:47] And you're so aware that everyone else is just going about their day and you have this just awareness that life has just changed in a way that you can't really describe to someone [00:21:00] else. [00:21:03] Josh: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I guess I'm just sort of this, now that you look at your future and for me now I'd probably look out 10 years or so, or what that might look like. But when you get told that it's that 10 years, just one straight back, and then like, you almost can't even see past by the next month. Cause you don't even know what's going to happen. [00:21:22] I just really get blinkers on, but it really strips you back. [00:21:28] Helen: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I guess I, you know, from what I know of you from doing my research and that sort of thing, and knowing that he'd been on survivor and that you're, I'm similar in the way that I will look everything up. I like to have the information. [00:21:44] I think it sounds like for you mindset was really important in terms of how you approached it and how you got through it. What was that mindset? How do you describe it to other people? Or how do you get, how do you encourage other people who might [00:22:00] be facing a big challenge? [00:22:02] Josh: Yeah, the bit at the talks, I don't know, just a little bit at schools as well. [00:22:07] I talk about resilience and your positive mindset. There's a huge one. They sort of situations can be overcome. If you have positive mindset. Some people have different views on treatment and came out and has other alternative treatments. But ultimately I went with the proven treatment and that was chemo in the situation that had known 50 years of amazing research experience by some smart Americans. [00:22:31] And there's a book called the death of cancer and I'd recommend it. It's about a doctor called Vincent Devita. And he's essentially the man that. The best combination for auctions. And he ironically died of cancer later on in life. But I think most people in the world, statistically, but your positive mindset is goes a long way because yes, you need a good treatment plan. [00:22:54] Good, special luck. But if you have positive mindset, it makes everything a bit easier mentally and [00:23:00] emotionally, spiritually, et cetera. Yeah. Um, quite a big sports fan and enjoy watching any sport really. Cause I just like watching people compete at not necessarily the highest level, but because you'd go watch club rugby, that's the highest level up mine battling it out. [00:23:17] Going house. I can't say anything like competitive sport, but I approached it like a sports match or a, or maybe a test series. Cause Kansas definitely not a one-off game. That's not on there. And I guess the B a T series is probably a good analogy because you could lose the first two tests. But badly, but you could come back and still won the next strain. [00:23:37] When the series is the example I was given is Pookie Cura pack. It's a cricket ground. And you promise one of the old boss aside is one of the most beautiful credit grounds in the world is wisdom, but it's well known not only for its. Scenery and the terraces, but also the shore boundaries. And so I always at my home grounds and you promised, put [00:24:00] your pack on short boundaries. [00:24:01] And I know that the ground and I was cause I was at home. I had my own doctors and McCallum and whatnot back in the sheds, ready to come out. And so I knew I could call on other people cause you still got cancer, but actually there's other people that can help me through this and we can lose a few wickets or fall behind the rate, but we can still win because we've got the time. [00:24:19] So, you know, I approached it in that way. Yeah. Because I think some people get cancer and I think I'll maybe going to live or die, or like it's a Hy-Vee store now or black and white, but you can get there with bumps in the road. And there will be challenges because it's not easy. You'll probably know David Downs. [00:24:35] I've made a few great new Zealanders through having cancer. And he's definitely one of them, but his journey has thought phenomenal. Really. I think there's a lot of people that have that and he's been quite public about it, but his one probably is the best example of in a cricket match. She was probably like eight or nine down with a hundred runs. [00:24:52] And not, maybe not great batsman and there that somehow they pulled it off and just never say never or never give up really. [00:25:00] But at the same time, there's some cancers in some situations that are impossible, you know, people get terminal diagnosis and they're fine if that was made. And I don't know how my response would have been. [00:25:11] It might've been very different. It's I guess it's situational. [00:25:15] Helen: I think what I've learned about resilience and it was certainly through cancer and. Of the challenges that have cropped up in life is that it's not all about being, you sort of don't have to be happy about it, or, yeah, the positive and a positive, a hundred percent. [00:25:35] It's more of my experience about writing. Those ways of acknowledging I really bloody angry about this today, or actually this is really had, but knowing that, okay. Maybe if I break it down. So for me, for instance, with my chemo, because I had eight rounds of it in a, it was, it was pretty intense. Yeah. I like to say my [00:26:00] oncologist knew to me, they throw as much chemotherapy at me as he could. [00:26:07] That first round was sort of the unknown territory, but once I've been through that, I kind of knew, oh, okay. This is a pattern. And I know, so I started to get to know the pattern and I could say to myself, all right, I know from day three to five or six is probably going to be quite hard. I know. And I'm gonna, and I'm going to get to that in, and I can go to my local cafe and have a coffee because I know I'll feel like it by this day. [00:26:34] And so that was my little thing that I could aim towards. And so once I knew that it helped get through it, and that's not to say that there weren't really challenging moments or challenging days or that I didn't want to have attention, but yeah, just breaking it down in those ways or, um, focusing on other things was. [00:26:56] A little ways of getting through [00:26:57] Josh: it. I can see when I say positive mindset, [00:27:00] it doesn't mean you have to be happy, go lucky. A hundred percent of the time there was, there was terrible times during it. And you're like, why me? This is bullshit because I still think, cause I say good people die all the time now from cancer, I'm quite aware of it. [00:27:15] And I still think that's BS that the good people get taken. Yeah, everyone deserves to live, but there's some bad people in the world that it gets through Scott three, they help a lot. And then you say, do ask questions that are probably the only thing you want to answering on the cyst, but yeah, it does make you get angry as well. [00:27:33] If you've got some good people around you during those down moments, you can lean on people to help you through them because no one should feel that they're alone when you've got cancer. [00:27:44] Helen: Not at all. And I keep looking at, I know this is audio for anyone listening, but Josh had. Amazing photo. [00:27:57] Josh: I had cancer in that photo [00:28:00] is a sacred or not. So secret spot now with Instagram, but that spot was almost road just out of and ramps up. And if you fail it, small, lost quite a good photographer, but if you frame it up, it makes the mountains and. On that particular day, I was just a beautiful blue sky in the mountain. [00:28:18] So what's done shining it and I'll sit up there. But yeah, that was, that was quite a where you got it, frames the canvas, but it's quite a half limited because the mountain was a huge source of strength. For me being from Taranaki, we get, most people are announcing that you see it every day and surreal. [00:28:37] Was also someone that I joined a lot of strength on terms of the analogy of him conquering Everest. This was my wrist. Then I actually printed off a picture of Mount Tyrus state. I printed off a whole lot of number numbers, one to, I think it just went out to 20, any very treatment, mental, every major milestone. [00:28:56] I'll just put a number on this. I was like climbing waivers. Yeah. There's [00:29:00] a local artist that does some sketches and mommy ended up buying me after I walked away and remember. Got this artist drawing for me. And that's a picture of three of us looking down and it's captioned with his famous quote, knocked the bastard off. [00:29:16] Oh, it's actually just films on the wall. those mountains sort of photos yet have become quite strong reminders for me. And I guess I look at them even now when there's a challenge or an opportunity is that was in the. That's not to say you can get, you can't get through it. [00:29:32] Helen: Yeah. I, cause I, I have a connection to Tyler. [00:29:35] Nackey my mom's mother's side of the family comes from Altham and Stratford. And so I, yeah, I love that mountain too. There's just something about it that feels so grounding and so powerful in a way. And I think that having those things that ground us through. Storm as so important and so helpful. Cause I, I hate to say all this Steptoe [00:30:00] having images around me that gave me hope. [00:30:03] I hit an amazing, my best holiday in my life was to Vietnam and it was. Um, trip. And I was so proud of myself that I'd traveled on my own and I'd gone to Vietnam, which is just, it's an insane place. And so I had pictures of them. I had pictures of Vietnam and other things that just gave me hope that there was going to be something after this experience, whatever it was. [00:30:29] So I left that idea of surrounding yourself with imagery or ideas that can really anchor you in those hard moments. [00:30:38] Josh: Yeah, I think I'm a jury can be quite powerful. So yeah, the same one is Mohammed Ali. There's a couple of iconic images of him standing over and it was quite somewhat not enough, got them down in the man-cave, but he did exactly the same thing. [00:30:52] The other arm was data. My workplace when I was at the bank was awesome. That was so supportive. There, the [00:31:00] approach was that we're going into battle. And cause there was one guy in particular that it was some quite senior and he was like, I almost bought up for it. And it was like, not like we're going to do this. [00:31:11] And he was out Wednesday day and he always called it a D-Day when it became close to D-Day he did that. This is a picture of, um, New Zealand is walking onto the beach and globally, and they superimposed my face onto the main guy on the. Um, so, and it's like legit, it looks like me walking in and like back in the day I went to this beach on D-Day and, um, and then he like, he's a big transformative. [00:31:40] Yeah. So it was all black and white, so it looked real and he'd like, put them superimposed, transforms into like they are walking up behind me. It was all still got a downstairs lemonade behind you or something. Yeah. It's pretty cool. But that's another example and yeah, just those little things that you can look. [00:31:58] I love this so [00:32:00] much. [00:32:03] So [00:32:03] Helen: you mentioned you, so you're with your partner who is now your wife, and you've got mum and dad and a sister in China. How did that impact the family that your cancer diagnosis? Cause I know it can impact people differently and. Yeah. It's a bombshell within, in the family and your friends when you get a cancer diagnosis. [00:32:25] Josh: Yeah, it was probably, yeah, it was pretty hard for the family, but they rally behind pretty quickly. Fortunately Alex's family lives here as well. So I had quite a lot of family here, but you kind of just rally behind that. So I feed my sister. She's a twin sister as well. So there is quite a strong connection there, but because she was, she felt really, she was all going to come home. [00:32:43] I was like, don't be stupid. Like you don't have cancer. I'll be right. So I just said, oh, I'm going to bring out the prime minister and ban you from the country so you can come home. But she ended up doing like a care package. Every week I had this letter to open [00:33:00] and it was kind of something to look forward to. [00:33:02] There are scratches games, challenges just during the process. And then as I went through, she predicted that I'll be in remission. So it was a remission one as well, which is quite copay. There was obviously a family just rallied around me early, but I think being young in a reasonably small town, And I was quite open about the diagnosis from the get go, cause I just sort of approaches the village, raises a child sort of thing. [00:33:24] So just get through this, that was a bit of a bombshell to the wider community. A little bit is just with everyone was connected to, and really had it. But there's a few people at school that passed away that were in it at school, but everyone's like, oh my God. Say, do you hate that? But there wasn't really anyone else around recently that had gone through this. [00:33:43] I think everyone rallied around me, which was quite cool. [00:33:47] Helen: I honestly, as you've been talking, I sitting here thinking, I feel like your friends and family and work colleagues and, and like a case study of this is how you respond. [00:34:00] This is what you do. [00:34:02] Josh: Yeah. It's a great place. Yeah. I think New Zealand, et cetera, in general, as a, as a great country to buy, I dunno, maybe been born and bred here. [00:34:11] You just have a different connection, but ironically. Kansas lead to the role. And in now it's through that public facing and been involved in the community. So Kia, Kansas, what I look at any challenge in life as an opportunity, and I guess you don't know the time sometimes, but sometimes the challenge can lead to opportunity and can say, has ultimately lead to a ton of opportunity for me, not only in Taranaki, but around the whole of the country [00:34:36] Helen: opportunities. [00:34:37] I, what sort of things did it open up [00:34:39] Josh: today? [00:34:43] Finished cancer. When I graduated from the university, wanted to iron them, cause I've been straight to survive after it was a bit of being then having, when you're on survivor, all of a sudden you've got a you're on TV. So you've got a national presence and profile and being from people love [00:35:00] celebrating locals, doing stuff nationally and the head, their profile. [00:35:04] So I was like, oh, I'm going to leverage this to raise the money for the cancer. For an idea to try and create some kind of support network. And at that point, I didn't know what it was. And it was because when I had cancer donation meeting anyone, that was my age, they had what I had in New Zealand. And there was a little bit off, a little bit like, ah, a little bit off putting and a little bit, it didn't worry me because I knew I had the support. [00:35:27] But if there was someone else that was either geographically isolated or just not a public person, like I am, they might have struggled a lot with. So there was a seat to the idea and then went through a fundraising campaign, did a whole lot of talks, fundraisers sold off my shorts and a few different items that I wore on survivor for a thousand. [00:35:48] There's some crazy, super fans around the world that love survivor. And they just clicked survivor from all the different countries. So I maximize my duty shorts for that. And then. [00:36:00] Right. It's about 32 grand over three months. And I did a half iron man at the end of it is my Coleman at the event to wreck around the fundraising campaign. [00:36:09] And long story short, the idea of each came to me to develop a platform or an app called ripple. That is a cancer support. It not only for patients, but for. Friends, fauna, family, workplace colleagues, just anyone that's impacted by cancer. Cause a lot of all the support services in New Zealand or anywhere in the world are patient centric. [00:36:31] And that's never going to change because the end of the day there's limited resource. And it's, it's all about the person that has the cancer, but ultimately it's like a bomb going off. Their blasts is much wider than just the EPC inter. The beauty of son-in-law this ripple is that the air can get to a lot more people. [00:36:49] And those people that there's nothing for them. So we, myself and the Kansas side ended up developing that and the cancer society and Taranaki actually committed the remainder of the funds to [00:37:00] make that happen. And we launched it in December salesmen 19 now. So it was about a year and a half more ago. [00:37:10] From there, that's still a bit of a work in progress in terms of trying to get it across New Zealand. It's probably a reflection of the cancer landscape. There's 125 plus charities. And a lot of them don't really work that well together. And there's a lot, quite a bit of duplication. And so we're still working on trying to get report across New Zealand. [00:37:27] It's the only really. Online, digital support service out there. So it should be something that's got a lot of, um, uptake, but we're just working on that at the moment should the cancer society, but we were not struggle. And then from there I decided on a half, iron man is only half an iron man. So I made the decision for the four and nine men. [00:37:50] You can't call yourself on a half on men side, which is actually really hard. And the reason I wanted. I want him to do something that I didn't [00:38:00] think I was capable of before cancer and the ultimate test and endurance. And so I'm willing to do that and try and knock that off as well. That was amazingly hard, but so satisfying. [00:38:13] And then all of the stuff's kind of pushed me down a different path in life. I sit on the local Kansas site, executive and central districts. I'm involved nationally with the Kansas side, the New Zealand council for chartered accountants and a few other boards as well. And then the community was becoming quite apparent is sounding well. [00:38:31] That was my patient, that mama chartered accountant. So that kind of quite different skills, but in the end, the job came up and I'm now the chief exec of Tamaki foundation, which is, uh, a community foundation or charity. We exist for the telecom community, there's community foundations all around the country. [00:38:50] So if you'd said to me before cancer, that you're going to go on survivor, you're going to do an Ironman. You're going to more Jeanette across New Zealand and then get in the [00:39:00] mix. What's the new Zealander of the year awards. And then you're going to be the CEO of a community foundation or cold, a massive base. [00:39:06] How's it possible? What would even lead to that? Yeah, it's a strange, it's a strange life sometimes. And I've definitely learned that it's not linear and you just roll with the punches, but definitely take opportunity. If you say no to some things, sometimes that's probably the right decision, but often there's nothing wrong with taking a bit of a risk, as long as it's calculated and well thought out they have a crack at something because you just don't know what's around the corner. [00:39:32] Helen: What I really like about that is that everyone's iron man is different. And so it's that idea of not leaving things and setting goals and seizing those opportunities. Because I think what cancer taught me is that life can change so quick. But you just don't know, you don't know what going to happen tomorrow. [00:39:53] And I know that yeah, it can be really challenging. I, that first year after treatment finished for me, it was really [00:40:00] hard because I felt like who I was completely. Changed. But I think that moment you can refocus and go, okay, what am I going to put my energy into as quite an important moment for you moving forward after that cancer [00:40:16] Josh: diagnosis? [00:40:17] Yeah. That what you've said resonates completely. It's I guess you compare it to a bulk and if you want cancer to define your life, Some people let that happen, but ultimately it's just the chapter in your book. That's probably a pretty juicy, chunky chapter that might draw some tears to the rate of that. [00:40:32] Yeah. I've, it's just a chapter that leads to some much better narrative later on the book. [00:40:38] Helen: Yeah. That's so funny. Cause I often, I guess this is just my sense of humor. Is it when something goes wrong in my life, I would say the greater the memoir, the memoir. Yeah. [00:40:48] Josh: It's not like black humor is definitely something that I, when I say positive mindset, It's not just, oh yeah. [00:40:55] Oh, it's a sunny day. Like here the birds, but it's also things like humor and, and black humor as well. [00:41:00] And I use black humor while as having came out quite a bit. And when people would complain about something or because I worked probably 70% of the time, throw it as much as I could try to say it, but I found the exercises impossible. [00:41:12] Cause I just felt so sick. Not doing that again. The lecture, but when people would complain about something so trivial or I'm hungry, or, oh, they don't hear this, the dog you're complaining about that. I'd read the room obviously, but let's say you complaining about that. And here I am doc, and I'd be like, oh, we can't say that I'm not, I've got cancer. [00:41:32] I said, you just humorous things. Cause at the end of the day, but now it makes it out alive. So let's have fun along the way, even in. Pretty dark times. You can still shine a little bit, a lot [00:41:44] Helen: in the past few months have come into another huge life change and challenge. Tell me a little bit [00:41:50] Josh: about that. [00:41:52] Yeah, so yeah, Alex and I got married last year, fortunately before all these COVID times, because weddings now I think bring a lot of anxiety [00:42:00] to those getting married plus numbers. And even if things fall over the last month, but unfortunately we managed to not get that done. Yeah. Have the dream day that we wanted and it wasn't impacted at all. [00:42:12] But after that, our honeymoon didn't get canceled. We were supposed to go to Bali and do a stint over there. So unfortunately that didn't happen, but not the end of the world. And we just decided that let's try for the baby. And then it happened actually really quick. And we had our son. And February this year. [00:42:34] So he's almost seven months old, but, um, being as a family name, that's my mom's maiden name. So that's why we chose that. But it also means little blessed one, and we feel quite blessed to have him and Skylar came out. You don't quite know if all your parts are working and then firing the way they should. [00:42:51] So it'd be a fortunately, they were, and we've got him with us now, so we're pretty happy. But again, you're hitting a child, changes your life. Pretty [00:43:00] dramatically that he's growing up fast and Tom's just fine. [00:43:03] Helen: And I don't cause the folk women, cause I was offered a fertility preservation because of my age and I hadn't had children. [00:43:10] Do they offer that to young men when they're going through? [00:43:14] Josh: Yeah, they do have, 'em still got some little Josh's and Hamilton. I can say that. [00:43:24] I know some people have not. So before. Um, experiences with public health and that can be situational where you live or just bear lack or COVID et cetera. I had a really good one, but that's an example of, um, what was offered up and, and I guess that's also an example of some weight things that you end up having to do when you. [00:43:45] That was quite bizarre. We don't need to go into detail, but we know it's weird, but it's just something that you have to done. I went to Hamilton with David to go to Hamilton, to go, you have sought out the protection of the trunk, [00:44:00] but yeah, if native day was, and I was like, yes, to doing this, cause I want to have kids. [00:44:05] So there's no way I was going to like, cancel it, steal that away from me. So that was something that I wanted to do India. But fortunately for me, that's probably easier as a, for a woman. That's that more of a process. [00:44:14] Helen: Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So, congratulations. I think that's a really hopeful story for people to hear that life can go on and you can still have those amazing [00:44:25] Josh: milestones. [00:44:26] Yeah. I think the way when you hit cancel anyone who's canceled like the worst and that's because it's a pandemic that's been around for a long time now imagine, oh, I always imagine a don't feel did a press conference one o'clock every day and just read out today. We've got 80. Cancer cases, but it's pretty grumpy. [00:44:45] It's a will, there's a worldwide pandemic and I don't know how to leave it be solved. And I know there's treatments for all for this and that, but it's such a big battle that may never be truly one. [00:44:56] Helen: And if people are not familiar with the ed, can they download that off [00:45:00] in a. [00:45:00] Josh: Yeah. So rep was just on the Google and apple play stores. [00:45:04] You just say triple or ripple wins it. And if you want to know a little bit more about the story, just go to dot co.zip. That's owned by the cancer society, but it's got its own sort of brand identity, but you can just go on there and download it and go in there and talk to people or just consume information because the idea of it is that people go on there and it's largely formed by sets of like a social network and. [00:45:27] You can engage with other people, ask questions and get some honest answers and it's anonymous as well. So you don't necessarily have to out and who you are. Cause a lot of people are maybe embarrassed to have cancer or don't, or it's quite intrusive, maybe what they're going through. So they don't necessarily want to she everything. [00:45:43] So there's that? Well, so. [00:45:46] Helen: I'll pop links to that in the show notes also I'll post it. Cause I think, yeah, it's really important to have those connections. And if people want to follow you on social media, do you have social [00:45:57] Josh: media? Yeah. It's Angela Swan with there's a ripple, [00:46:00] um, Facebook page, but my Instagram is just what I am will JV it. [00:46:04] Try to shift. She had a good things in life on there, but yeah, can't complain too much at the moment. I still do feel quite fortunate having got through a relatively unscaved and it's probably given me a whole lot of tools and skills and whatnot that I've taken into my life and work now. So yeah, I feel quite fortunate that I know not everyone has that same. [00:46:24] Helen: Thank you so much. Thank you for spending time with me. I know that you've got a small, you go to Bubba, so there's, that's always, time is precious, but I've really enjoyed hearing more about your story. [00:46:36] Josh: Thanks. And keep up the good work, because people need to listen to these, all these different sort of stories that you tell, because yeah, getting told about Kansas is pretty shift that. [00:46:48] Yeah, it's not, then it's generally not the end of the world. And listening to these definitely gives people hope and maybe a little tools and approaches on how they might get through it. Cause see how I approached it. Certainly not help if someone else might [00:47:00] approach it because they might want to just chip away at it on their own, but there's support out there. [00:47:04] So just go and seek the truth. [00:47:07] Helen: Thanks so much for listening. The C-word is every Sunday at 11:55 AM on Auckland 1 0 4 0.6, planet FM and anytime at DubDubDub dot planet. audio.org dot INSEAD Ford slash the C word.