What does it mean to be a young cancer survivor?

Susan Haworth was nine when she had cancer for the first time.

When Susan Haworth was nine-year-old, she was diagnosed with bone cancer. She underwent a year of chemotherapy and radiation, which was physically and emotionally challenging. She missed a lot of school and felt isolated from her friends.

At age 17, her cancer returned. This time, it was induced by the radiation she had received when she was nine. She had part of her humourous bone removed and was fitted with a metal prosthesis. Despite all this, she continued to fight and was determined to live her life to the fullest. She decided to share her story publicly to help others who are going through similar experiences.

I just wanted to be normal. And I think that's why I never went on and on about my cancer as a nine-year-old, because when I meet people, I want to be known as me.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. What was it like for Susan to be diagnosed with cancer at age nine and again at age 17

2. The physical and emotional challenges that come with cancer treatment

3. How Susan has learned to cope with her cancer diagnosis and treatment

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Love Health Nachos: Thyroid Cancer with Gabi Fanizzi

Chanel's story: a breast cancer journey through strength, support & self-love

Connect with me:

Episode Transcript

[00:00:09]

You're listening to the C Word Radio, the podcast where we ask, what does young cancer survivorship mean? With me, Helen King guests subscribe and rate on Apple podcasts and Spotify. And welcome back to cword Radio. Joining me today to share her experience of being diagnosed with sarcoma at nine and then going through cancer for a second time at 17 is susan Haworth. susan joins us from Hamilton and she's had a bit of a strange experience with a cat burglar this morning.

[00:00:45]

Thank you so much for joining me. susan thank you so much for having me on here. Howard and yes, I definitely thought I had a burger in my house last night, but it was a stray cat, so I'm very blessed that it was a stray cat rather than a burger. I really appreciate you having me on here today to talk about my journey with cancer, both as a child and a teenager. Yeah, it's really interesting, I guess, reading that experience that, you know, as a nine year old going through that, which I imagine would have been huge, and then as a teenager, and they're both such shaping times in a person's life.

[00:01:23]

And so I know that how you came to be diagnosed is that you started having that pain in your right arm as a nine year old, what do you remember about being told you have cancer or had cancer? I think the pain started during a Christmas holiday. As a family, we used to spend every holiday at Mount Illinois, and I remember just playing outside with my brothers. I think for Christmas we got one of those games where you throw the ball and it hits about prototype thing. I just remember playing with that and I just remember going to my mum.

[00:01:58]

Her first thought was falling over, have you hurt yourself? Have you exerted yourself too much? Like, maybe just sit down and have a rest. Good on mum. And it's sort of been phased off.

[00:02:10]

And then about four months later, I just remember saying the same place to my mom and at first she sort of thought, what if she's growing pain? You're still growing at that time of your life. And it was only until she looked a little bit closer and said that there was a bumper. And that was sort of the true indication that something wasn't quite right. And straight to emergency.

[00:02:36]

The only time that I'd ever been in a hospital prior to this experience was the passing of my grandfather. So to me, hospitals were a place where you been saying and you didn't come out. And so I just remember having this thought process and being very wrapped up in the point that I was going in, but I wasn't coming out of that place. So it was quite frightening at the time, not really knowing what's going on. And many years ago, technology wasn't quite the same and so wife at a hospital didn't have half of the things that we needed to be able to diagnose and even have an MRI machine 30 years ago.

[00:03:21]

There was a lot of tests and a lot of discussions because the type of cancer that I had can be quite rare. And so they weren't actually really sure what they were dealing with for quite a long time. And it was only until I had that in my eye that it was very clear that I had bone cancer. So that's sort of how it all came to be. And then the journey unfolded, really.

[00:03:47]

Yeah. So you had a year of chemotherapy, you're in and out of hospital and then radiation. I mean, that's huge in anyone's life. It's huge. As an adult, as a child, I mean, that experience must have been so far removed from what your friends and schoolmates were going through.

[00:04:05]

What was it like going back to school after all of that had happened? I think for me as well, because obviously it's not just the emotional changes, it's the physical as well. I lost all my hair. Children don't understand a lot, so going back to school, there was a lot of bullying, not necessarily coming from a cool space, it's a lack of understanding. And so I was really, really blessed to be an award at work at a hospital with such amazing staff who actually came down to my school and actually in an assembly, talks about what cancer is and how they can talk to me and support me.

[00:04:46]

But as I said, I think it came down to more of an lack of understanding. And once they did, things really changed. Like, people wanted to help, the empathy came out, but I was very isolated as well, because if a child was second school, I wasn't able to attend, so the parents had to be notified, letters had to go out. If a child is unwell, please notify us, so we can let this family know, because your immunity is next to nothing. So the risk of getting sick is very high.

[00:05:23]

So, yeah, you sort of lost a lot of stooling at that time as well. Hospital had an amazing school teacher, but you definitely felt removed and almost felt like you lost a year of school and it was a year before you went into intermediate, so it was that big transitional time as well. We're just about to leave primary school and it's all big and scary, but not only did I have to deal with that, I was also fighting for my life at the same time. So, yeah, it definitely had some challenges going back, but overall, once the understanding was there, my friends and the children were really, really amazing and so were the teachers. I was really blessed in that way.

[00:06:06]

You said something there that I think even as an adult, I know for myself, you're fighting for your life, and as an adult, that is a lot to take in and understand and process. Were you aware of that at the time? Was that something that was in your head? Absolutely. I think the doctors are very real and open with children.

[00:06:30]

I mean, as much as you can. But the thing I think that made me more aware was that I was not in hospital alone. I was with other children that were also going through the same journey. And so you become a community. I was also very involved with Childcare Foundation at the time.

[00:06:50]

So you are spending a lot of your time with other children who are going through the same thing. So obviously it came to a time where I did lose quite a lot of friends, and you're having to deal with it at such a young age. And I felt sometimes I was going to more funerals than I was birthday parties. And so it's really real, it's very confronting, and you have to go out really, really fast because the whole funeral process isn't just attending, it's when you're friends with that person and you're part of their lives. And it was also a multicultural experience.

[00:07:28]

I was going to a lot of tongues at a young age, and so, you know, I was part of that process. You're seeing people who have passed away and cast it really young. And so it made me really grow up very fast because I was having to deal with death at such an early age and having to understand what it meant. So, yeah, at times it was extremely sad, but it's also shaped who I am today as well. It's really helped me grow from a very young age as to how lucky we are.

[00:08:03]

Yeah, that's such a huge thing. And then I didn't realize until I read your story a second time that when it came back, it was the radiation induced because I remember having radiation and treatment and things, and they sort of mentioned that, you know there's a slim post that your treatment could cause it, and it just doesn't even really come into your head that that fear of reoccurrence is a thing for you. It's come back, you're 17, but now it's not just radiation and chemo. You're having parts of your body removed and a metal prosthesis. So what was going on at the time?

[00:08:45]

Are you deciding where to go to uni at 17? Yeah. So, gosh, I was 17, I was six four. So it was a year for my last year. And like you say, you always get told that there's a slim chance of something, but after eight years, after the five year mark, you sort of feel like, yeah, you're in the clear.

[00:09:09]

And so after eight years, it is quite a shock to the system, not just to you, but all your specialists are like, oh, wow, we didn't see this coming. And so you're at a different level of your life now at 17. You're learning and seeing the world in so many different when you're a child, it's all about play and imagination. And when you're 17, you're going to school balls and we're dressing up, and sometimes there's a boy there that you might have a crash on, and there's image, and there's so many other things that you're having to worry about. And so for me, it was a transition.

[00:09:50]

Okay, this has happened. What do I do now? And it would have been my last year of high school, which I missed, so what do I do now? But as I said, at that time, all I could think about was what's the next step? So it's 1ft in front of the other I couldn't think about my future at that time or what am I going to do?

[00:10:10]

I actually had less go at the end of six form to start, so I'd already started a polytech course when this happened and I was so excited I was in an adult world because polytech, you sort of feel like you're starting like new. So unfortunately that got put on the site and my journey started again with cancer, but at a whole different level. I think once you've had it once, there are so many things that you can't have or you get told by a specialist the risks with this, and so it's not a brand new thing anymore, but it's also a slightly scarier situation because it's like, wow, you've had it twice. The levels of survival do get lessons and you're more aware as well. As a child, I was aware to a point, but this is real now and so I think being a 17 year old with everything else in the background and then now that as I said, it was just 1ft on the other.

[00:11:13]

How did your friends react? Were they supportive? Did you find that they I mean, it's hard to understand anything when you're 16, let alone yeah, but I'm really. Blessed to have had the same friends since I was at primary school. Yeah.

[00:11:31]

And then I obviously gained friends as I've gone through life as well. So at the time, I found it very hard to tell people who hadn't known before. I sort of felt like as growing up, I didn't want to be labeled as the girl with cancer and so it wasn't something I proactively went out and said, hi, my name is susan and this is my experience. Wait until I got to know the people and then I would share it. Yeah.

[00:12:01]

A lot of my friends are quite shocked because they actually didn't even know that I've had cancer when I was nine, I was trying to sit 1617 year old girls and boys down and say, hey, this is what's happening with me. No, they were amazing, but they were still going through school and so they were coming up to school after this school and like, you know, times where they probably should have been doing their homework or their study, then sitting with me and keeping me company. And I'm so appreciative and some people don't know what to say. I think that, oh, how do we approach this? So there was a lot of almost silence from some of my friends as well because it's almost like when someone passes away and you're trying to console a family member or a friend and you've never been through that experience.

[00:12:50]

None of my friends have really known anyone that has had sex. So do I say this? Do I don't? Am I being sensitive? Am I not?

[00:12:58]

And for me, I just wanted to be normal, like, what is normal in the game of things? And I think that's purposely why I never really went on and on about my cancer as a nine year old, because when I meet people, I just want to be known as me. I didn't want to have this stigma or label that this is who I was. And it's only as I've come into an adult space that I've actually really prone to and been like, you know what? I'm not going to hide behind the word cancer anymore and almost make it feel like a shameful word because it's an experience I've been through and it's something I'm actually really proud of in a sensible way.

[00:13:38]

It's not an achievement that you want to sort of yay, but it's an achievement in itself that I can openly talk about my story now like I am with you and not have that, like, almost shame or fear. And so, yeah, I'm just owning it now and that's taken a very long time to really accept because you just constantly are trying to show people, this is who I am. I'm not a big fan, I'm just shooting and this is just what I've gone through. But now, as an adult, I can't wait to share my story. Because if I can help anyone else or if I can make someone have a bit more knowledge about what it's like to have cancer and then be a family member or their friend, and they know just a little bit more about it or how to deal with it, I feel like my job is done.

[00:14:29]

Effective. Yeah, I imagine as well, because I know that you had to have some of your humorous bone removed and you've got a bionic arm, so to speak. And so I relate to this by having a scar and I have a breast missing, so it's not like I can't forget cancer because there's like this physical reminder. How has that post treatment life being for you? How has it changed the way that you approach life going through cancer the second time?

[00:15:09]

Yeah, I think for me that has been my biggest challenge and my biggest hurdle was the physical elements. And like you said, it's a constant reminder that you have had this experience. And it's also with the pressures of society and social media and how we look and how we're supposed to look. As a female as well, and as a 17 year old female going through that, I'll be completely honest that the physical element affected my mental element. Like, I didn't want to go to the beach, I didn't want to be seen.

[00:15:46]

I didn't want people staring at me, I didn't want to be asked questions that post treatment. For the first year, I just felt like I wanted to hide away. I just didn't want the questions and explanations because people are curious. And that's fine, that's absolutely fine. But when you're dealing with your internal demons on, how do I now live this life with an arm that is absolutely still there and so blessed?

[00:16:14]

Because they were looking at amputation as an option. And so how do I live with this arm as a physical reminder? An arm that doesn't do the things I used to do. I used to play tennis, I used to play netball. How do I recreate this life with an arm and learn that this is who I am now, moving forward?

[00:16:34]

And it's been a huge journey. Even now, in my 30s, I'm only just coming into accepting my body. And I know for a lot of women that stop standards, you know, we're constantly worried about, are we good enough? And not just for myself, but even when I started dating and that sort of thing, it's like, how do I tell this person? Are they going to accept me?

[00:16:56]

Are they going to like me? Are they going to you know? So you constantly got these thoughts and not yet. And so for me, that's been a huge journey, like, I would say, a ten year journey, to really learn to love myself and love my arm and not be not hide it. But now I can walk in a shot with a singlet and I don't feel like I've got hundreds of eyes on me.

[00:17:22]

I'm just like, this is me, deal with it. I can go to the beach. Yeah, I'm physically owning it. But there are times that I struggle with simple things, like getting up on a chair and changing a light bulb, I can't do. And these things are even changing out of clothes.

[00:17:38]

Sometimes I struggle. So it's still the daily elements that are reminding me. But I also have that, I suppose, more mature adults of mind now that my 17 year old selfdoubt. And that just comes with growth and acceptance. So now I'm like, this is my arm.

[00:17:58]

This is how it is. My scars are just a story and not to be ashamed of them. This is just who I am. And the same, like with your mission, it's just for a while, you're right. It makes me feel like this is who I am.

[00:18:15]

But at the end of the day, it's about just learning to the acceptance, I think, is the hugest thing for me, because once you accept it, it feels like you're just free. But it's free from everything that you've been holding on to. And as I said, it's only been probably the last couple of years that I've really been honestly been able to say that I'm free from this constant reminder. It's just like, I don't even think of it. Don't get me wrong, I have my days where I'm like, I just want to be able to have a tennis racket or do this.

[00:18:49]

But then I was like, wow, I can do all these other things. So, yeah, you just have to remind yourself of what you can't do. There's so many things you can. Absolutely. It's interesting, isn't it?

[00:19:01]

Because I couldn't wear my prosthesis for months and months and months because I had this ongoing sarga with one of the drain scars, basically because it just wouldn't heal. And then because I had the chemo, radiation, all of this. And if you find medical things a bit squeamish, it's probably not the store. No, I work in medical insurance. I'm all open.

[00:19:32]

It just wouldn't heal. And it ended up a hole. And so I had this hole under my arm and it ended up being bit. So thankfully but what it meant was for a very long time, I couldn't wear a proper bra because of that area. From very early on, after my breasts being removed, I think I just got the bucket and when I was going to go out and have one boob and people have problems.

[00:19:59]

That's their problem, not mine. And then sometimes I think it's kind of like being a walking public health reminder of go get your mammogram.

[00:20:11]

Yeah, but I understand. I'm not saying I'm like that all the time. Sometimes I do feel self conscious, but I think you're right. It is this part that you sort of have to face and decide, how do I approach this? And how do I get to a point where I could be okay with this?

[00:20:29]

Absolutely. It's a journey and also a misconception is that as soon as you walk out of that door and your specialist has said you're in remission, that's not the closing of your door to the journey of cancer. It's lifelong and whether it's mental, whether it's physical for you, and then you're also going into journeys with your own family and friends who've got cancer. Like I mentioned to you, I recently lost my mom. And so that was a huge journey, not only because you had been through it, but also watching someone that you loved with every inch of your body, like, go through that.

[00:21:10]

And so, in hindsight, that my journey helped her journey, but it also makes it so much more painful when you physically know what that person is experiencing. In some ways, the pain and the sadness and the thoughts of decent and having to be real and basic. And my mom was an extremely brave and powerful person. And I think her experiencing as a mother looking after a child with cancer, not just once but twice, I feel, really gave her the drive. She was diagnosed and within less than a year, she was gone.

[00:21:52]

But she never complained. She never and I think her experiences with me gave her that inner stream and she knew that she was going to be okay no matter where she ended up. And even the doctors at the end said we've never met, like a brave woman who her priorities were her children before her. And I think my experience had, like, gave her the strength. And so I think that's a misconception as well with people is that once the door closes to the hospital doesn't mean the door closes for everything else that we go through.

[00:22:32]

And some people, it can be years and years of constant reminders or almost survivors guilt as well. And that's something I wanted to bring up as well. It's like you have this almost expectation of pressure that you should be bouncing around and then being I am grateful. And as much as you want to, when you are in your harder parts, you are so grateful that you are here. You're also looking and thinking, why does that friend, you know, didn't make it through?

[00:23:01]

Or why did my mom not go through it? And so sometimes that survivor go is really real, and I think that something I really want to put out there is that it's okay sound cliche. It's okay not to be okay. And we don't have to be constantly convincing people or putting it out there that, yes, we've had cancer, so we should be living this life where we're out there living, you know, the world and doing everything just happened to us, and it's real. And if I want to have the day where I'm not so grateful, that's okay.

[00:23:35]

I don't have to be 24/7. I'm so blessed to be here. I have my days and I'm real. I'm still a person. And that's not just for cats, anything, anyone experiences, yeah, it's okay to have that moment where you're just like, I am angry.

[00:23:52]

I want to feel this. Why did this happen to me? Why did it happen to my friends? And it's okay. You feel it and then you move on.

[00:24:01]

But I think survivors, though, is something that just no one talks to you about. Yeah, I still relate to it. And I think actually after the first time that we spoke and I was thinking about this afterwards because you shared that your mother had gone through cancer and that you took a good amount of time off work. And I was thinking, I love that because it's just like what you're saying that we don't give people the time and space to grieve. We just sort of expect it to be like, oh, yeah, they might still be a bit sad.

[00:24:33]

Come on, like, you got to get on with life. I just feel like we don't understand that grief can actually just be life altering and lifelong. It doesn't mean that that person can't reengage and enjoy life at a point, but it does mean that they have experienced a loss and actually there may be some time where they need to be really tender with themselves. And so I think the fact that you took the time that you needed at that point yeah, it's acknowledged, it's a really loving thing to do for yourself, because a lot of people would just be like, right, I'm going to take my two weeks off and then go back to work and get on with things. Yeah.

[00:25:14]

I think grief in itself, it doesn't have to be like a physical gap of a person. I feel like in regards to cancer, it could be the loss of my breast or the loss of the ability of movement, or I feel like for cancer patients as well, it's grieving that time you lost, like, you have one to two years of your life almost taken from you. For me, grief isn't just necessarily the physical loss of a human, grief could be the loss, as I said, of all these experiences. Like, I lost part of my childhood, I lost part of my teenagers, my friends were going off and parties and I was sitting in a hospital bed throwing up. So I feel like with grief we always sort of look at it from the terms of a memorial passing away.

[00:26:04]

But I think as like people have been through cancer, the loss of huge in so many other ways. And so, yeah, I just feel like it's so nice to just get that out there. Because, as I said, it losing my mum as much as it broke me, and that's why I took the time. And I was just so blessed to have such an amazing company I work with who allowed me to have that time, because I didn't know who I was without my mum. It's the person that sat beside me when I was sick for a huge four years of my life in two different periods, and that's the person that brought me into life.

[00:26:42]

So who am I without this person? So it wasn't just a loss of a mother, it was a loss of someone who also had been through something I had been through and didn't make it. And so for me, like you said at the time, should I be doing this? Because you're right, everybody has a say on how you should process things, how you should feel. And I understand where people are coming from, I understand they want help.

[00:27:09]

They think you're sitting in a pile of tears is not going to help. Let the person deal with it the way that they need to, because there's no right or wrong and that's what I've learned. And I think that's the same with someone breathing the loss of a press or the loss of an arm or the loss of time. Like, let the person feel what they want to feel, and when they're ready, they will grow from it. And I just feel like that's something also lacking.

[00:27:38]

Like I said, we closed the door from our doctor, but where's the support? No one said to me as a child, when you're 17 or 18, I come into some really dark times where it all hit me at once. Like the realization that, hey, I've been through all of this because you're on adrenaline, you're fighting for your life. You have to put 1ft in front of the other. So then when it all stops, it's like, okay, so what net?

[00:28:04]

And it all hits you at once. Whoa. I've actually just been through this humongous experience, and it can lead to depression. And I can remember times where I was just like, I can't do this anymore. And that's really real.

[00:28:17]

But I feel like, where's that after support of anyone? Whether it's cancer, whether it's hard to like any type of disease or something you've experienced, like, where's that after support? I mean, I'm so blessed that I had child cancer foundation. I had Kentin, and Kentin had some really amazing programs which helps you deal with those emotions as well. Lots of group chats and that sort of thing.

[00:28:42]

But if you don't know where to look or you don't know yes, I find that quite upsetting in a world where mental health is so huge at the moment. Where is the mental health for the people who have gone through such physical health? There's none. There really isn't. Because I didn't even realize that the rates of PTSD for people who've gone through cancer is higher than people who are in the armed forces and gone to active war.

[00:29:10]

You know, you've covered it and explained it so well that we, the general population, doesn't understand. Yes. When we get signed off by the doctor. I've always said that's when the hard work actually really started, because you're glowing yourself back together, but you actually don't know who you are anymore. And everything around you is the same, but you are so different that it's like, well, how do I even learn how to relate to the world?

[00:29:37]

Because. You'Re saying everything I feel right now. Absolutely. And it's also like you said, it's discovering who am I? And I feel like I've been through so many experiences.

[00:29:50]

My vision of the world just really changed. And I really struggled to get back into social side of it because I felt like the world was so small compared to the world I'd been part of. Like, I had been part of other people's journeys with cancer. I had been like young children who are so brave. Like, children just blow me away.

[00:30:18]

They are a next level. When it comes to cancer. I feel like sometimes as adults, we could really learn from these beautiful young souls because they have a fight in them. We complain about the smallest things and yet you see a child fighting for their life and they have a small and for me, that is just worth more than anything. But yes.

[00:30:41]

I just feel like I really struggled because I had such a deep like, I'm an empath and I feel things so hard. I feel the emotions of people. If someone's telling me a story, I feel it so personally. And I felt like I'd come back into this world and I almost felt like, oh, my gosh, this world has become so shallow that this bubble that I've been in and I've been let out into it, I was like, I don't want to be part of this. You know, like, I've been through so much and watching so much pain on other people, I just felt like everyone else's saying, don't get me wrong, everybody's journeys are their own.

[00:31:21]

Like, no one's journey is bigger or smaller than mine, but the things that we worry about in life and that we complain about and as I said to them might be so they just fall. And I really struggled to interact in certain conversations and people are going on about, oh, my gosh, my hair didn't turn out this way, or like, I didn't do this, or, oh, my gosh, this guy supposed to be. And yeah, it's real and I totally get that. But I felt like, where do I fit in? Because I was just like, oh, my gosh, it's just rewind here.

[00:32:01]

Yeah. Even to this day, I struggle sometimes I just want to shake people and I'm like, yes, your stuff is real. I'm going to listen to you, I'm here for you. But come on, guys, let's keep it real. There are so many bigger things in the universe, not just cancer, but in general.

[00:32:22]

So I just found for me personally, coming back into the world, I was a different person and I felt like I had moved on from a lot of the world that I used to be part of. And I still struggle sometimes, but I just have to remember, susan, this is the journey. Your journey is yours and theirs is yours. We're all important in that biggest game. Yeah, it's such a good way to put it because I struggle too.

[00:32:53]

I still struggle with social stuff because I feel like someone forgot on how to interact with people. And then we had the pandemic and so we weren't seeing people.

[00:33:06]

I have no social skills anymore. You'll get there doing this. This is amazing. Thank you. I feel like this is a really good place to sort of wrap up.

[00:33:18]

But before we do, I like asking people this because this has intrigued me for a while, because I have no idea what it really means either, but what does cancer survivorship mean to you? I spent a lot of time last night looking at that word survivorship, and I was sort of like, how do you put words into what survivorship means? Because we're all surviving. Whether we've had cancer or not, every day we wake up, we're taking one step forward. And so for me, that sort of explained survivorship is the moving forward, the acceptance.

[00:33:57]

Survivorship doesn't necessarily mean to me like, surviving through something like, yes, I'm here, I'm grateful. But I think for me, it sounds really cheesy and I feel like a duty for myself that me going through this experience. And I've only, just, as I said, come to terms with it and acceptance in it. I've been going through the hospital system for over 30 years, and I think acceptance is a huge win for me because acceptance is like a word saying, okay, I own what I've been through and I'm now ready to move on. And so for me, being 39, nearly 40, taken me 30 years to say that word.

[00:34:47]

So to me, that is survivorship. That's me being whole and my whole person, my arm, my experiences, my losing my mother, like, the pain, everything, it's just all wrapped up. And I'm like that's acceptance. So I think for me, that's what survivorship means. That one step in front of it, the other, and that's all you can do.

[00:35:11]

Because even though I've accepted it now, I think my whole life there's still going to be that growth in that journey. And I think I owe it to myself and to my mother, Lisa to do that. And I think I feel like you were brought to me at a time. Your pop up on my Facebook was just when my mother had passed or just about to pass, and I remember saying to her, oh, my gosh, I've discovered this because I really feel there's not a lot out there in New Zealand. I've reached out to Australia.

[00:35:47]

It's a really great another podcast called Good Morning. It's that morning. And so, yeah, like, finding someone else was just mind blowing. And at the time, I wasn't ready to do my podcast, but now I've done my grief and I make acceptance. And so, yeah, I just feel like people are put in your path for reasons, and I think acceptance for me is a big word for survivorship.

[00:36:13]

I love that. And what a beautiful note to wrap up on as well, because I think that is such a powerful message. So thank you. Thank you for being open to thank. You for just allowing me to talk and having that voice that I think is going the more we get it out there, the more people are going to accept it out there.

[00:36:35]

And I think the more we talk about it, the more we're aware, the more we're going to be mindful of our bodies, the more we'll be able to support someone if they don't go through it. So, yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening. The C word is every Sunday at 11:55 a.m.

[00:36:55]

On Auckland 104 six Planet FM and anytime at dub dub dub Planetaudio.org NZ, theword.